Do you discover countries for yourself or do you base your opinion based on what others say? In this interview, Dr. Mnyandu discusses the importance of making your own opinion about a place and
· Growing up during apartheid in South Africa;
· Returning to his home country as a professional researcher;
· The importance of demystifying Zulu culture and traditions;
· The hidden history and development of Chinese-African relations;
· Studying abroad during your time in college.
Tell us about your experiences growing up as a Zulu South African during three critically distinct phases: apartheid, its downfall, and post-apartheid. How did you understand your identity during those tumultuous times?
Dr. Phiwokuhle Mnyandu
I grew up in a middle-class neighborhood. We always competed to do well in school. If you were seen leaving school early or in the middle of the day, people would stop you. However, this neighborhood wasn’t a township. When apartheid began in the mid-1900s, townships were designated places for Blacks to live in. They were usually crowded and lacked basic amenities. “Colored” — which might be a problematic word in the Western Hemisphere — is fine in South Africa. “Colored” refers to mixed individuals who lived in better conditions than Africans and Indians, but not better than whites.
As a child, I did not know this. My parents protected me, so I lived in a blissful state of ignorance until I was 12. I met a white person for the first time and realized I was Black when I went into the city with my mom. I began asking questions: “Why are we on this bus? It’s old and it’s always late. Why don’t we take the blue one? It’s nice and is always on time.”
After the downfall of apartheid, integration began. My mom wanted the best for me and sent me to a former designated white school. I was one of the first 30 to integrate an all-boys school of 700. It was the second year of integration. It wasn’t nice. I was hazed.
In the mid-1990s and early 2000s, you really see a difference in the country. You can live wherever you want if you can afford it. Realization dawned that South Africa had many resources that it could offer me as a citizen. You start having this sense that there is racism.
In an interview with E. Ethelbert Miller, you mentioned the normalization of violence and how you embraced it as a part of your everyday existence. Can you talk about the dangers of becoming numb to this type of violence?
Living in an oppressive system teaches you to stay away from politics. You could be jailed for a year, renewable indefinitely, for venturing into politics. Until 1994, it was not allowed for Black South Africans to vote. Being Black under apartheid meant you could have violence incited upon you for the slightest infraction. For example, if you taught people about democracy, you would be liable to have violence incited upon you.
When states incite violence against their own citizens, violence becomes normalized against people. Violence is also normalized against the state. During apartheid, we were taught slogans from our political leaders, including “render the country ungovernable” and “liberation before education.” I would argue they still have ramifications today because they affect the relationships South Africans have with violence that rendered the state ungovernable. These slogans normalized burning down schools because you wanted to render the country ungovernable. It also created an anti-intellectualism movement, which is dangerous if you want to decolonize your mind.
In an aim to demystify Zulu culture, could you share some key traditions?
Most African cultures are full of misinformation stemming from the colonial structures that wrote African history. There are different schools of thought. The dominant ones, though, believe African culture is inferior and needs improvement.
Researching online, you will find wars, myths, and mysticism as major parts of Zulu culture. This is because my culture became known when Zulu warriors wiped out a British regiment in a confrontation in 1879. This is a moment of pride for us. Although most people were against colonialism, Zulus were some of the few people who took up arms against the British. They had spears fighting against guns. Even if we lost the war, we won one battle. We pass that down to our children.
Major tenets of Zulu culture are our values, our relationship to the cosmic forces, and the spiritual realm. Also, how we deal with mental health. ‘Ubuntu’ is an overused word in the Western world. It is often a money-making project and not about Zulu people, but it comes from us. A rough translation is “I am because we are.” It’s a set of values taught at home. Things like treating other people with respect and showing gratitude. Showing gratitude is so important. When someone crosses your mind, call them and say what they’ve done in your life.
This is important because it shows that Zulu people did not need Europeans in order to be moral. Europeans did not teach us morals. It was always there as Ubuntu. It was passed down through generations.
You studied, worked, and lived in a lot of countries — South Africa, England, France, China, and the United States. What prompted you to go abroad the first time?
I was curious after apartheid ended. As Black South Africans, we were ignorant about the outside world because we were required to obtain a visa to leave the country. This environment was made to close a lot of us in and keep us in the dark about the outside world.
When apartheid failed, we simply wanted to explore and experience the world outside of South Africa. My first trip abroad was right across the border to Botswana to visit a friend. When you cross a border, you’re in another country with different laws. The idea of carrying a passport is exciting.
What is it like on the other side of the border? How are the roads? Will they treat me equally? All this was bottled up in my first experience crossing the South African border. I still have fond memories.
When going abroad, there’s a notion of ‘coming home.’ You returned to South Africa in 2014 as a visiting Fellow for the Institute of Global Dialogue. How was it being back? Did you see it through a different lens?
I try to return frequently. This time was special though because I went for research. One of the advantages of traveling away from your country is that you are able to look at it differently.
I remember when I was young and played outside. When it got dark, I rushed home to avoid getting in trouble. Instead of entering, I peered in through the window. There were lights inside, so I could see everything clearly. That’s what it’s like to return; you get to see your country from the outside looking in.
Around lunchtime, passing by a major mall, there were people sleeping on the grass outside. An American friend once asked why they do that. They wake up at 4 AM and travel for an hour because there are no jobs where they live. They work until 7 PM and make the long trip back home. Before I may have thought they were slacking off, but now I know it’s for their well-being.
There are also negative aspects. African scholars encounter more suspicion than European or American researchers. My white American friend can walk through security without being asked for her badge, whereas I am questioned. I may be asked, “Who are you? What are you going to do with this data?” As a researcher in Africa, you have to navigate the challenge of people’s belief that there is a certain race associated with research. Fortunately, I have had supportive African intellectuals who help me navigate the power structures. I remain quite optimistic, but it’s a problem.
You recently created the first accessible works – two books and an app – in the Zulu language. What inspired you to do this and how do you feel about this huge accomplishment? Is this part of how you “articulate your country to the world” as you mentioned in your interview with E. Ethelbert Miller?
It took me six years to collect Zulu verbs. When I study other languages, the most important thing is conjugation. When I started looking at available materials for African languages, I noticed they were characterized by colorless black and white pages. It was not exciting like my French textbook, which shows pictures of people having fun. Studying the language doesn’t feel like a chore.
African languages are underserved and often ignored. You have a lot of legacy learners — people whose parents moved from Africa to Europe or America — who want their children to learn African languages. They are up against languages like French, that are well-resourced. It’s unfair for us to expect our children who are used to top-notch technology to use black and white books with no pictures to learn Yoruba.
I turned back to my language because it’s important for my children. I found it lacking. The last comprehensive dictionary was published in 1959. Most of the works are either catered for tourists or people with a Zulu background. You can’t express abstract thoughts with the phraseology book and the other ones for people who grew up in Zulu-speaking environments do not cater to those who are “in the middle,” so to speak.
There’s a gap across many African languages spoken by people in the diaspora. That was the genesis of this project: to make an exciting book. When I started learning French, there was a book, “500 French Words.” I wanted to do 500 Zulu verbs.
Being home due to COVID, I reflected on things I always thought were impossible and didn’t have time for, like making an app. My wife encouraged me, so I learned and made a Zulu conjugation app. Zulunomics is the first app done by a native Zulu-speaker on teaching Zulu conjugation and Zulu culture. You can’t really learn a language without learning culture.
Some of your research focuses on the evolving interest between China and Africa. When did their interest in Africa begin?
Between 1911 and 1949, there was a long and brutal civil war between the Nationalist Chinese and the Communist Chinese. In 1949, the Communists won and China became the People’s Republic of China (PRC). Nationalist soldiers led by Chiang Kai Shek fled to today’s Taiwan. In 1949, most countries, including the United States, still recognized Taiwan as China. It was political.
Between 1949 and 1970, PRC’s sole effort was to be recognized as China. It meant other countries of the world had to vote in their favor at the United Nations. In 1949, China embarked on a long process to get African support. In other words, at the United Nations when the time came, they had to vote to recognize China — People’s Republic of China. China made investments in African countries early on. Once African countries became independent, it meant new votes at the United Nations. Thirty-two African countries voted for the PRC to be China. Without Africa, there would be no PRC, or at least it would not have happened in the 1970s.
Chinese-African relations are long-standing. They have given rise to a powerful narrative used by the Chinese: we’ve always been there, we’ve always been friends, we’ve never colonized you, brothers and sisters. This was for strategic reasons. There is a speech where Chairman Mao says, “It was our Black brothers in Africa that brought us back to the United Nations.” China always credits Africa with making it a country among countries.
Sometimes, when we’re analyzing things, we have an ahistorical view. We might just say China is all over Africa. The fact is China has been in Africa for decades. Even as we discuss this new type of presence in China, it’s not new, but it’s more significant and has more challenges.
What was it like to be in China as a South African?
When I first visited China, I noticed how fast the pace of development has been. A train in China stops in smaller villages and huge cities. I was struck by the environmental toll it took to achieve such rapid industrialization. Sometimes you look at the person sitting on the train not knowing their story. Someone who was a rice farmer 15 years ago may now be wealthy, but continue to spit in the train due to their ingrained mannerisms.
I was struck by how dedicated they were to education. I’ve never seen anything like it. Students fight for textbooks because they want to read before classes begin. They want to be ahead. As citizens of the world, you’re competing with them. It’s a scary feeling.
Finally, I was surprised by how easy it was to live there as an African. There’s a stereotype about racism in China. Once, in China, a crying child was threatened by their grandma, “Keep quiet or I’ll call him (me) to come get you.” She scared a child using me. I found it funny. If you’re in China for a while, you get used to this. It’s not that there’s more racism in China, it’s that Chinese people have just emerged into the world, in a sense, and are dealing with different people for the first time.
It’s very easy to be sensitive and think that’s racism, but it’s not. In fact, you get away with a lot in China being a foreigner. You jaywalk and don’t get arrested. It’s important to understand that and encourage students to go there and see for themselves. There is no more racism than elsewhere. It’s just much more blatant.
Any final thoughts for those who may be interested in studying or working abroad?
The world is yours. Studying abroad opens your mind. There’s nothing like leaving the safety of your home. You get some of the best ideas and goals that set you up for your future. I recommend going abroad during college because it is the one time in your life where you are not expected to have a job. Studying abroad should be a fundamental part of being a college student. Take an extra semester or even an extra year to graduate if you have to in order to go abroad. That experience will pay back in unmeasurable ways later. I want everyone to study abroad.
Studying abroad helps with global understanding. You’ll be able to develop the cultural competence to understand people who live differently. Learning or mastering a language is easier if you go abroad. Being vulnerable and relying on strangers does wonder. Relying on strangers makes you a well-rounded adult.
It’s especially important for people of color to go abroad. Sometimes, you grow up with limited thinking about what types of lives people of color can have. By studying abroad, you could see a successful Black person for the first time. That in itself can change your life.
About Dr. Phiwokuhle Mnyandu
He was born and raised in Durban, South Africa. He teaches in the departments of African Studies as well as World Languages and Culture at Howard University. He also consults various government departments on issues of language and culture. His research interests include (South) Africa-China relations; trans-regionalism; academic diplomacy; and the Zulu language and its global growth. He is a co-founder of Zulunomics, a platform for integrating tech systems into the Zulu language. He is interested in the intersection of isiZulu and Al (Artificial Intelligence) and has been involved in research projects involving machine learning. He is also a creator of the Zulunomics app, the first Zulu app by a native speaker. His other books include a co-edited work, Pan African Spaces: Essays in Black Transnationalism, as well as a forthcoming monograph, South Africa-China Relations: Between Aspiration and Reality in a New Global Order.